Mason Domecq - Going After the Energy Drink Aisle with Honey Kombucha

On this episode, we're joined by Mason Domecq, Founder of DIVINI, the Scottsdale honey kombucha brand that's about to take over Sprouts in the Southwest. 

We get into the formulation that makes the product scalable: ferment the kombucha base to zero sugar, then add back honey, fruit juice, nootropics, and a probiotic strain.

We dig into why he chose cans over glass and went after people stuck on energy drinks and soda rather than the high-end Whole Foods shopper, the recent rebrand that helps the cans jump off a crowded shelf, and Mason's pricing strategy and philosophy.

We also cover the community-first playbook of music and art events, how a cold LinkedIn DM to category managers led to an imminent Sprouts launch in his Phoenix backyard, and what building in public actually did for the brand.

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Episode Highlights:

🍯 Borrowing a SCOBY from a family friend's table
🧪 Fermenting to zero sugar then adding honey back
🏭 Cold-calling the first brewery to white label
🥫 Why cans beat the $6 holistic bottle
🎨 Rebranding so the product sells itself on shelf
💰 Pricing from landed cost to a $4.49 Sprouts MSRP
🎶 Building a community through music and art events
🛒 Cold-DMing category managers into a Sprouts launch
🚚 The local playbook to hit 160 to 200 doors
📈 Going from a pre-seed round to a seed raise
📱 Building the brand in public before a polished product
🔭 What's next: more flavors and grab-and-go formats

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Table of Contents:

00:00 – Intro
00:51 – From investment banking to brewing kombucha
03:35 – The recipe that started DIVINI
04:36 – Quitting the day job and the first commercial run
06:01 – Formulating honey kombucha (and why honey is tricky)
07:36 – Finding the first brewery and white labeling in
10:59 – Why cans, and recategorizing functional health
12:29 – Packaging that sells itself on the shelf
14:51 – Knowing when it's time to rebrand
18:03 – Pricing and building the margin model
20:39 – Building community through music and art events
22:51 – The accessibility gap they had to fix
23:56 – Landing Sprouts through a LinkedIn DM
26:53 – The local distribution playbook
28:07 – Fundraising and scaling production
30:03 – Building the brand in public
32:49 – Product roadmap and what's next
34:27 – Where to find DIVINI

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Links:

DIVINI – https://www.livedivini.com/
Follow Mason on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/mason-domecq-2a3b34192/
Follow me on LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-martin-steinberg/

For help with CPG production design - packaging and label design, product renders, POS assets, retail media assets, quick-turn sales and marketing assets and all the other work that bogs down creative teams - check out https://www.kitprint.co/.

Shout out to my friends over at Glimpse, the go-to partner for automating retail-related back-office operations and unlocking margin trapped in invalid fees and manual processes.

Are you in the market for a new flexible packaging partner? Check out HD Packaging. Third-generation, family-owned and built for the needs of category leaders like Newman’s Own and A Dozen Cousins. Faster launches, lower costs, and no artwork fees. 

Transcript

0:00

welcome to shelf help actually pause co founder of devini the honey kombucha brand based out of Scottsdale area started brewing Devin is apartment in August 2023 I think after a fermented green tea and honey recipe was passed along to him by some family friends I think um which I think I'll probably touch on here in a second but started brewing at at night after his day job sold close to I think 1,000 bottles or so in the first few months I'm quitting my investment banking job fast forward a bit here we are today the very long story short I'm sure he's gonna touch on here in a bit more detail but um yeah super excited to to dive into it Mason but yeah just first off for the the listeners that maybe are not as familiar with the Divini we love to just start off by just getting a quick lay of the land just in terms of an origin story why behind the brand core products in the lineup and then maybe a few places that people can get their hands on them and then we'll go from there yeah that's great thanks Adam yeah I was uh this recipe came from as you said literally uh I was trying to get into the health space I didn't really know how um you know I I got out of college and immediately got into the business world my family background is in clothing so we had a western clothing business for 25 years so I grew up in a warehouse you know packing clothing and like modeling as a kid and cowboy hats and like like when you had a catalog and stuff and um just helping out the family and we moved from Wyoming here in 2007 so been in Arizona for going on almost 19 years which is crazy and um yeah I was I mean I was I was learning so much I was playing college golf and um I wanted to get into to business and I knew that was like the route I wanted to go I just didn't really know what fast it so you know naturally when you're going to college you're like alright I'll just get into the best like you know base career path I possibly can and go from there and it's really interesting job of pretty much everything that I'm doing today like that knowledge has stemmed from which helps me a lot so a lot of it was like working with business owners and it was all on the MNA side so transacting businesses doing financial projections working with lawyers on packaging up your business and transacting it to another buyer and so I got a ton of hands on experience with that and then all while that was happening I was like man like it is so cool to work with business owners and I you know that I always wanted to create a product and and especially when you're in service for me it was hey I really want to strap my identity to a product and have that show through and as you're also trying to like figure out yourself naturally you're like you okay I'm just gonna figure out through this brand and kind of you know combo in two in one I mean I mean prior to Vinnie like yeah I would just work all day and then anytime I had outside was trying to work on business concepts I'd like design a full service restaurant farm to table restaurant that I was gonna work with local farmers on and did renderings for it and everything and you know so kind of just trying to like pick some ideas and I was always good at like inquiring to people that were way smarter than me in that field so I would talk to restaurant owners and farmers and you know all the people in my network that I knew and um and still I was kind of drawn back to like oh it'd be really nice to just have a product and start that as a base a little lower barrier to entry you can always scale it up from there and was lucky enough to my two good friends at the time um Dylan and Mckenna they we had like a family it was like a family friends you know friendsgiving type vibe where we had like 20 people it was um she's super holistic so we had like a home cooked meal and and she had fermented all of her tea in the back for pantry so and we bottled up and use that as you know what the liquid we use the company the meal and I tried it and I was just blown away instantly I was like oh wow this really tastes good and I knew it it was very healthy you know just from the ingredients and it was just a honey fermented tea of fruit and some herbs so I was like hey can I borrow like some of that SCOBY and start producing in my house um so I started with like a little half gallon and in the span of eight months I had about 40 gallons brewing between like three different vats bunch of like fruit infusion jars that I was moving it to I had two commercial fridges and like 24 bottles next to my bed so it was getting a little um little much little sad dove head first into it I just really love the process started giving out to friends and at that point it was like February 24th saved up a good chunk of money so I was like alright I think this is really something I wanna do I I don't really know how to do it yet but I I know I don't wanna be here so I'm just gonna focus on trying to bridge the gap here so I took two months off and um and I was talking to like some investors at the time talking to breweries commissary kitchens trying to figure it out and luckily I found a brewery that would kind of take me under their wing and produce my first product um in August of 24 had that to market by September started with 24 cans then did a re up of 56 hundred cans in March of 25 spent the whole year literally doing like a hundred plus events meeting everyone in the community like really making like a community beverage and I kind of just figured out you know the stripes of the beverage industry and everything that needed to happen to make the product succeed reformulated everything repackaged everything that your team had the you know pleasure to partner with and um next thing you know we had you know almost 30,000 cans sitting at brew right now about to get bottled got a sprouts contract in Phoenix set up for um July of of this year um got some some more meetings with retailers here locally so we're gonna just take over Phoenix and look to expand from there um I love it that's awesome three cans that we're taking to market diving into the weeds of formulation R&D stuff a little bit you can just like I assume I got that right what was the kind of key to actually making it work yeah so honey is interesting because it's there's so many variants of honey you know it really just depends on what the bees pollinate on and so it you know honey in Arizona is gonna be completely different than honey in Minnesota Michigan or northwest gonna be different than South America gonna be different than literally any part of the world it's still honey but the you know it can have a very like floral notes it could have more dryer notes it could it just varies a lot so I think that's like the trickiest thing for sure especially when you're dealing with fermentations and you're introducing bacteria so you know traditionally I think that's been like the biggest advancement in kombucha is probably been how to make that process consistent and so kombucha brewers pop up now what we do with our product is we take a regular kombucha base we ferment it down to zero sugar and so it's just like a super strong kombucha base and then we dilute it with you know regular tea and water and then we actually add back honey and then all of our fruit juice nitropics and we use a probiotic strain as well so we kinda found a way to systematize that a bit so we can use that to scale instead of actually traditionally you know fermenting it with the honey just using honey as an ingredient is a yeah so much easier and honestly I think it'll be better for everyone cause you're creating a more consistent product by just having it as an additive ingredient totally awesome that's great you may have jumped from your just kind of to some level of commercial production tell me just a bit about that going to that search for the first brewery Copacker what you were actually looking for how did you go about that search it was tough I mean um yeah cause I really struggled with like you know creating that like brewery and you know starting Commissary Kitchen and and kind of the woes of doing that and and really just came down to what I had access to you know there's so many ways you could do it and she's like alright well what's the quickest you can go to market what do you have accessibility to what's your experience and I mean my experience definitely you know I was I was making good tea but it wasn't anything that I I knew from a background of like brewing or anything like that so I was like hey I'm way more comfortable partnering with someone that that did that for a living that like that was their thing and just finding like an a plus player in that and then building up my skills and building a team that could kind of you know form in that everything that that need to happen yep so I use I don't know there's a lot of companies out there where you can like search they have good databases of a lot of local breweries and people that specialize in this specialize in that um so a lot of it was word of mouth a lot of it was just research and honestly like the first brewery I got literally just um cold called the owner like I just called him up and luckily the owner picked up and I was like uh hi how's it going my name is Mason I uh I brew tea like you guys do and like here's like what I wanna do and um and uh they like they're like yeah OK that sounds interesting like we can set up a meeting like you know kind of like pushed it back a little bit and I was like right no like I'll I'll drive over there this weekend I got samples ready to go like I wanna show you guys what I'm doing and kind of just really like pushed that I had this figured out and all I needed was just capability and end up getting a meeting in person and I I brought like a ton of my home brews I brought printed out material of like what my cans would look like at the time and just try to do it as professional as possible and just put a good foot forward and they're like okay well I mean you got a lot figured out and kind of just told the story and was like alright yeah we can so the first recipe I actually just white labeled off their base their kombucha base and then just added my own flavor and branding so that was how I got my entry in without kind of knowing what product to create so I kind of just created off their base they already had dialed and then um the hardest part was you know kind of understanding because you're kind of blind at that point then because it's like okay we have this base but if you want to actually build a brand and have that sourcing control and everything you kind of have to you know in the back and I was trying to figure out how do I make this my own and yeah my own recipe that I knew and that no one else had so that was kind of the woes and kind of what we did the year that we were marketing that building the Divinity brand and then it's like okay cool now I I know some experience I know a lot more people I have some advisors now let me get the right intro so I ended up going to a just they don't have a kombucha brand they solely comp uh co pack they co pack for a lot of different variations like some alcohol infusions of fruit um but they're predominantly at Kombucha Brewery so it made sense to go with them first and we could really go with any co packer at this point but systematically I think it made the most sense and they got me in at a price point that I could model out and make sense at yeah at our volume so so yeah I kind of just relied on people that knew what to do better than me yeah don't make sense you're using that or bottles yeah bottles were I mean honestly it was a it's a couple thing one was accessibility so I was kind of thinking of like okay if I really want to make a product you know Divini's not gonna be that product that's gonna be I I don't necessarily want it as like the golden you know the golden holistic product that you find in Whole Foods that you pay 6 7 dollars for you buy off the month you know I don't really see it fitting into that I really wanna kind of recategorize what a functional health product is and so that's where I was like man I would love to see this product like take over energy drinks and gas stations I would love to see this product um you know fit in the health market but be something that it doesn't really identify with Mister like the high end health consumer like what about all these other people that have all these problems with energy drink consumption and sodas and like how do we how do we make how do we change that market so it's like okay well you know that's where the cans made the most sense easy accessibility younger demographic you know you can take it out you can take it on the beach you can take it it doesn't weigh a lot so it's kind of like a little more on the go as opposed to that like super high end health product so I find a middle ground where to make it convenient make it accessible but also really what matters most is what's going inside the totally yeah packaging tone voice positioning packaging design rebrand you executed pretty recently in terms of um that kind of initial brand look and feel positioning what were kind of some of the key variables that were top of mind for you when you were building that out yeah but so with our first product we built it very much off of like beauty first you know like very visual first which which worked a lot of capabilities and when we're marketing towards like when we're going in person you know it's very easy to speak on a product when you're the one introducing it to everyone right when you start to hit store shelves and you kind of eliminate that person that's selling you and so the product now has to sell itself yep the transition where it's like OK yeah if if this is gonna sit on a store shelf there's a thousand other products in the store like how is someone that doesn't know anything about our brand that might not come from social media or come to search for us pick it off the shelf and and want to consume that yeah so it was more of like a a strategy on having the product sell itself versus having you sell the product you've made yeah that was the main thing of like me looking at the our last product and being like yeah this this needs a change and so that's why like with our current product we've made like the front very visually easy to understand the name the PNG the flavor and like we do focus and gut health so that's like our two things that we're we're kind of marketing towards and then we can kind of have you know the artsy elements on the sides we have a lot of like floral artwork but on the Plain View it's very like oh this is the Divini product and you can read it understand it and um and hopefully want to try it cause I didn't know what I wanted yeah I was gonna make something that you know it our previous artwork was sick it was really cool yeah it was cool really cool it didn't it didn't storytell how I thought and it what it didn't really speak to the brand we've you know spent the last year marketing sure so you know especially when we approached you guys and we worked through the rebrand it was like okay yeah how can we kind of put our true brand voice and ourselves into it and then you know have you guys with your knowledge kind of put the artwork element and and speak that story into existence so that was probably the main help and assistance and for sure that totally makes sense I just approach you tomorrow and say hey I'm a founder early stage founder had a brand in the market for a year or two told you I'm kind of considering going through a rebrand or and or a packaging refresh to just even help me understand is this the right time to even go through this rebrand yeah I mean I I think you very much have to understand what you want to some extent you know and you don't have to always get it right like even when we were going through it like you know we had renderings we made changes um and it it gets clearer and easier to make those changes once you're like no I want my brand to say this sure I want to be that way which helps you know the agency to be like okay I just need to now cater it to yeah as long as you know what you want then it's easy to make what you want when you don't know what you want then you're just shooting in the dark so it was very clear you know after a year into that first product we were like okay we know what we want our current product is not what we want so something needs to change that was like the trigger where it's like okay now it's time to you know it it was a very clear like green signal on that so I mean you can just you know you have to take the time to test a product I mean it took us you know about a year and a half from that first design to this design sure and we just had to get feedback we had to understand what people thought and what they wanted and you know you just gotta go in in front of people and get their perspective which I think made the process probably easier thinking about how to balance the kind of you're doing it for a reason but also keeping some of those familiar components resonate with them still feels like it's the thing that they'll still like and know how and where to find it does that make if that makes sense yeah absolutely I mean I mean like with this product that we still have like like that floral artwork elements on the sides so that's very still much apparent so it still looks at its core like yeah for sure it's to a Divini product like what people recognize I think you know if if yeah if I mean and we've been in you know we were in about 40 stores locally in Phoenix more not like traditional retailers but more just regular stores I think uh you know when you go back to those places it's like hey here's why we did this here's what we've realized people want so we've made those improvements not only have we made those visual improvements but here's what we've done to our base product and here's why we've made it now easier for you to get cheaper better ingredients more functional ingredients like this is what you kind of just story tell you know as long as you made a change for a very logical reason and and it'll help them and it's like oh this product will be easier to sell now sure or or you can get them to agree I mean I think that's the main thing that that we've experienced and you know we've had great feedback off of um everyone that's that we've shared to that previously purchased from us or have been around our brand so he's got to be honest with people you know and just like totally you know just you don't need to sugarcoat anything there's a reason why you did it and if you did it for the right reasons then you know there's that story will tell itself totally from a pricing standpoint what and our kind of process look like for nailing down your your go to market price when you initially went to market and then kind of second part of that question now today has your kind of mindset thought process changed at all the brand in the market yeah I think um I mean at a core we we just looked at what you know these products sell for between X range and X range and then we kind of said okay well um since we're using you know these ingredients we're using honey as opposed to sugar or sucrose we're using kombucha based of carbonated water and citric acid so we're gonna price ourselves on the higher end of the market just by nature um as a you know 1 because those ingredients cost more than artificial ingredients obviously and 2 um you know it's gonna um in the health space you know you kind of have to pay to play but you're you're buying it because you know that it's good and it's gonna have a good benefit and so you know naturally your people are gonna buy better products and they're gonna understand that to get those products it's probably not gonna be you know fast food versus true there's a farm and table meal as far as like what we marketed towards I mean with this with this new product I said okay um landed cost we're gonna be at X price and I kind of just worked up the margin supply chain there from distribution retail um so we can offer this at MSRP

I think we're gonna launch at 4: 19:09

49 at sprouts and do like a 2 for 8 but then on our website we can offer

you know bulk price down to like 3: 19:16

25 and then we will sell to local businesses for like $3 and um so you kind of build out like you know hey here's what like a retailer like sprouts would buy for we can offer that similar price to if we just direct the wholesale to local businesses in our area here's what I'm gonna have to pay you know our distributor and as long as we're hitting our margins on that that I know I can cash flow it so I think as you know as long as as you're providing an outlet to it's a cash flow cause you know the worst case scenario is you can provide a super cheap product that's good and then it's like oh great I can get this product really cheap and it's like hey we actually have to you know raise another million dollars or hey we actually can't like supply this product at that price um so you know you just gotta do what you know you can do totally and then stand by you know why you price it at that and then if it's comparative to other beverages or products in the market then it should um you know speak for yourself you never want to offer someone you we would never sell this for like six 7 dollars but you play in the game and understand try to match consumer expectations yeah totally yeah that makes a lot of sense too mm hmm from like the really early days pretty sure you put like integrating and and really deeply partnering with kind of like that has a lot of music and art events and really kind of trying to weave Deviney and the Honey Kombucha um it seems like it's a pretty intentional strategy that early on like yeah it appears kind of thought process around that decision to focus there so much initially how are you kind of like or there any kind of KPIs you're looking at yeah it's interesting to look back on like how you spend money early on I mean if you know let's say um yeah we were dealing with $100,000 it's like and now you know I would probably spend a lot more of that on product and and a lot more surplus and then just get it in locations where people can buy set up those deals with grocery stores that way you at least have like the hardest part that we the best part that we nailed about that strategy was we had such um such like like people would go around and be like I understand like I know who who Davini is like we got such great brand awareness from that that's awesome doing those events doing the like we would have jam nights where we like would invite we would have like 20 musicians over everyone was like you know doing music and we had like music showings at that studio and for like music videos and it was really like quite spectacular and then but yeah you know with that like on top of that people have to then it's like okay well how do I easily purchase this product if it's only available at the studio then you're only probably purchasing when you're at the studio right if it's at some local boutique shops and it's gonna be like harder to find and then if all your stuff's e commerce and you really haven't had like that really good um you know social traction or or Google Tracks or Amazon then it's it's definitely hard to convert um so that's probably the hardest like the best part of that and also the hardest part so I think like nailing down you know a good supply chain or at least a good retail partner like like now that we're in sprouts if we did that again like we could easily um integrate that into sprouts so it's like totally if you come to the studio like cool if you want our product like we're in sprouts everywhere it's like oh yeah I'll pick it up at sprouts tomorrow so now it's at the top of your mind but you've created that consistent traction of people just coming through and talking with you so it feels very real so I I I think it's great in a lot of ways but the part that we didn't nail early on was having easy accessibility for purchase and um like a local footprint of being available in stores um so that we solve that will start to reintegrate um and probably more like running that space was awesome um it was also kind of a part time job as well yeah I know yeah so and uh so kind of and but you can make good money from that as well cause if you're using it as a studio and stuff then I mean we charge for events we would do like let's say we had like 150 people show up we do like a ten dollar ticket and you get a free Divini with it so boom you just got 150 sales from you know one night event um so it kind of goes hand in hand but I think looking forward yeah we're gonna focus a lot more on just getting density on stores and building out the product side and then we'll kind of reintegrate that that community feel totally sprouts is a great example um getting that meeting with the sprouts team initially how did you kind of position the brand and now that you've gotten that commitment from them between now and when you're actually you know getting on shelf there what's that kind of process looking like getting ready to actually launch there effectively yeah I think I think it made a lot of sense specifically with them cause I mean like our office right here I mean me and Cam basically grew up in Phoenix our entire lives um so you know approaching sprouts felt very comfortable and easy and it was like hey we're in your backyard um you know we're probably one of the only beverages you know that's going in the um Arizona that where people live in Phoenix like they live right next to headquarters um so that was like a helpful element there um I mean I literally got contact just from Dming on LinkedIn a bunch of of uh of category managers and eventually met the person and then it was powerful because like we could set up a meeting and then I was like oh yeah we just drove here like we're 15 minutes away um so like occasionally that helps a lot you know if you're if the sprouts are on the East Coast like it's just gonna naturally be harder so that was very helpful I think um you know we we got in a meeting and um and we were very upfront about like where we are we want to be kind of where we want to position ourselves how are and I think it's also a new space for them you know they don't really have a lot of shelf stable kombucha they kind of have their kombucha set and then they have their functional yeah um like alcohol alternative set and then this new kind of functional element non alcohol elements um not really like a category in their store yet as far as like shelf space yeah so we kind of sit in a unique position to introduce a lot of elements that are already doing well for them and then figure out and kind of bring that locality in to yeah just create a powerful kind of local impact um you know our volumes are crazy right now so it was easy to do hey we're just gonna do a sprouts totally Phoenix lunch and then we can kind of expand from there and I mean they've been amazing to work with really easy partner to work with so far and that's great um so yeah just kind of nail that down but yeah I think you know with any retailer meeting is going to be honest I always try to focus a lot more on like building relationships and just being you know fun to hang out with and an easy person to work with and you know let the product kind of just do its thing thinking about over the next I don't know let's just say a year or two in terms of kind of sequencing out phasing and then the next goal after that for sure yeah so I think yeah really nail that I mean that'll be our first big chance to get like great data that we can obviously um used to tell a story as opposed to us just saying our products good and that that it'll do well so having kind of that yet it's great opportunity to just get really good data um to have a bunch of friends in the area that support us and going back to you know throwing those events like we have so many people that we'll go in and purchase product and and support us that way so that's that's great yeah I think you know just looking around your area and and saying okay cool well you know we got that like the bash families local I have a AJ's we can strap on so we can get another you know 30 40 doors that way we can um get an intro to alpers and Safeway we could um you know kind of just look at like what are the best opportunities locally that you could add on with um yeah just having your product local there and and just figure out kind of a a distribution playbook but I think really focusing first on like you know I I definitely love diving deep into one area and then kind of looking up and seeing what opportunities are there um but I mean there's no reason why we couldn't be in 160 200 doors by the end of the year love it that's great so just just playing that strategically and then you know at that point then it's like okay cool well now I have a legit proof of concept of of why we would bring out more people or or ask for more money so just trying to build that that playbook to to just make sense we're gonna take over Phoenix and you know southwest regions make a lot of sense whether be Colorado or California or Utah but you know those don't go anywhere unless you kind of have your backyard covered sure totally what's that looking like for you yeah I mean when I first started I mean I sacrificed everything so basically liquidated all my assets and you know when we first started I mean I raised my first check August 24 so we're about almost two years in from that so I pretty much filled an entire pre seed rounds and that is kind of you know got us to the point of of having a scalable product and and beyond to to grow up from there so I mean we would definitely be in a great position to kind of yeah move more into a seed and especially when we're talking about hey OK cool how do we you know let's say we bankroll 30,000 cans and then we get a cover all of our Po's now we got legit purchase orders so we can prove that and you know maybe we produce another 30 or 50,000 cans but then it's like alright cool now that we have set up these authorizations it's a lot more easy to storytell hey we can easily produce 200,000 cans and activate these regions and then you know we'll have places where the cans instantly go and as long as you have the good data to back it you know there's always OK cool you you know you sell in Arizona can you sell in Cali or sell in Utah or whatever and that's where we've just done a lot on you know we're pretty active on social pretty much willing to do whatever you know as long as we're not shy at all which I think you know I've seen a lot of brands in general like they have an amazing product and they just can't uh you know not not willing to get a little crazy um and you know that's what you gotta do you gotta if you're gonna make a product to to kind of defy what products are out there then you got to be willing to yeah totally to get outside the box on your marketing as well so we'll just keep keep doing that in conjunction with growing the product and hopefully they both grow simultaneously and then we're able to um you know take more money and and put it to a very efficient uses it seems like you've basically kind of built the brand in public on LinkedIn and Instagram even before there was really a polished product to sell like what have you found for the other founders thinking about going through a similar route of kind of you know building in public route like what kind of specific kinds of content as you found like has actually moved the needle for you the most and that gotten the most you know attraction whether it's like you know I don't know Founder POV post like Product Focus content behind the scenes brewing a lot like commercial production type imagery and content like yeah what have you found has been like resonating the most yeah I I feel like um it's different for a lot of people I feel like um one anything you can do that that story tells um you know brand awareness is cool but there's gotta be like that okay cool but like now I I I need to go on shopify and purchase this or I need to um you know uh go to a grocery store and find this product um there's a difference between just like being known and and solving a problem I think what's been great for us is really focusing on storytelling through problems and being transparent on whether be like filming at the brewery and showing everything that we're doing and so someone really understands the product they're comfortable with you know me and Cameron on the front ends I think that was great to start just making content without having a product yet because I think it was more beneficial from the founder perspective cause it just makes you more comfortable to just go on camera anytime and and talk and um I think it's just great for yeah meetings like just talking in person cause if you're always talking about your product all the time then it's just gonna become second nature of yeah why totally you're doing what you're doing me and Cam doing a real talking about our product like if you're not already on the personal side like if you're not already blown up and you have that pull already that it's it's obviously a little harder than like you know Logan Paul marketing prime like you're gonna stop on the video cause Logan you're like oh what's Logan doing so it's not even like the attention grabs not the person yeah for us you know cause no one knows who we are so I think it's we really have to pursue more on the product and then and then it's just getting a little experiment experimental I mean we've done and we'll we'll continue doing skits for comedy we'll do like funny ads we'll do informational ads we'll like you just can't just stick with one option and sure and once something that works then you you might get views but then it needs to convert so I think it's just always experimenting and kind of turning yourself into a not only a product but also kind of your own personal agency as well and just trying all kinds of stuff so we haven't we definitely have not nailed that at all yet but that's why we're that's why we're in the business and meeting at the office every day and coming up ideas and just doing it till it works yep constant iteration is basically what business is essentially anything you care you are able or willing to share in terms of anything else that's coming down the pipe from a product roadmap standpoint I I I have I definitely have some good ideas on a yeah like how we would expand like our Devin Lion into yeah whether be more flavors or actually other like segment products uh huh I think uh you we have a great opportunity in the next like six months to really just nail this product and you know cash flow that into you can kind of start some other projects and I think you know I I love it when average companies or companies in general come out with like a long array you know a longer array of products based off of grab and go or you know satchels like powder satchels or so you kind of have like stuff for everyone some are focused on newcomers cause they're light and they're easy to get and there's you can still sell them at a good price point some are better cause they're more grab and go stuff that you're on the go and so just kind of having something where at every walk of life you can kind of walk in and be like oh that's Devin products let me get some or solve that you know need through various different you know Bloom's been a great example of their supplements and their beverage and and they got all kind of facets so that really intrigues me I've seen a lot of supplements products go into beverage after they've already created their supplement foundation uh huh so that's been interesting to see so yeah a lot of learning but as far as Divini side I think we'll just go 10 toes down on on the cans and then um towards the end of the year we can start looking a little more towards like specific Divini iterations for sure that totally makes sense yeah Mason this has been awesome great to learn more about Devin and kind of where you guys are going what's the best place we were just talking about you know founder content and everything what's the best place for people to follow along with with um with you and Cam personally and then what's the best place for people to follow along with everything that's going on with the brand these days too yeah we're at we're at live Divini everywhere we chose live instead of like drink cause we really want people to live the brand yep love it our website at Live Divini we just made us a fully custom website um our like cart's super cool so you can actually like mix and match each flavor based off of like what you want specifically and it'll actually like build you your item list um so that's been super fun to work with you know work more with like technology in the consumer space and you know uh build these AI implementations and it just makes it way more fun and you know I'm definitely like a experimenter tinkerer um so I love always yeah just coming up with new ways to make your product look fun look cool for sure totally and yeah I'm on all our socials everything I live with it love it cool Awesome Mason appreciate the time I think that's the pod alright cool it seems like honey is a notoriously dialed in the formulation obviously at some point homebrew situation how'd you decide between going with cans or talking about kind of visual identity I gave a lot of creative freedom to our last agency is this the right strategy you would all kind of you know that need for obviously a fresh look you're that as existing fans of the brand still feel like and also I guess recognize the brand right away and reentering the market and or just over the time or evolved at all around how you kind of from a a go to market standpoint a pretty big focus on really like a creative studio in the Phoenix Scottsdale area tracking the impact to that starting to get get on shelf in some key locations what was the key to on the topic of fundraising when they're walking down the aisle